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**DONOTDELETE**
07-20-2002, 07:28 AM
Something strange is happening at *c regarding installs

If anyone has anymore inside info, please step forward.

I have been an authorized Starchoice Installer for a year now, and i've had a great relationship with them.
I am not a retailer of the product and but can only offer installations, service and defective parts replacements for the customers. I was even given an installer #.

What i've been hearing is that for each populated area accross Canada, there will be one possibly two companies chosen as the "Retail Designate" and will be the only companies allowed and authorized to do ALL of the retail generated new customer installations, direct sale installation, defective service calls and moves. All of them.
These companies will get the install contract for every customer new or exsisting who lives in that "Retail Designates" list of area postal codes. The exception of course is that smaller private retailers of the systems who have thier own installers will be allowed to install systems that only they sell.

What does this mean to a limited contractor not working directly for a retailer? go apply for another job.
That means there will suddenly be many out of work installers out there. This program is supposed to take in effect Aug 1. Again these are unconfirmed reports and none of this information was put in writing. this post is kind of a "heads up" for those of you not in the inner circle. Kinda sucks whats happening but I know I will be one of those suffering a major income loss until other venues eventually make money for me.

It will be interesting to see what will become of this. Some of these proposals will not last very long. My crystal ball says that once Starchoice realizes that the implementation of one or two Retail Designates to do every install will cause too many problems, the trend will reverse and eventually the door will be wide open for any good installer to accomodate the customer's needs during busy times. Already, as Starchoice tries to funnel all this work into fewer hands, some customers are waiting weeks on end to get their system installed.

Skyway
07-20-2002, 02:56 PM
I have been discussing these issues with the regional install manager and Barret Xplore...

I am a indendant retailer and installer, and had been told that I would be able to continue to do installs for the stores in my community, until yesterday when I was told by one of the stores that they had received a phone call stating that they could no longer continue to use me for their installs...That they had to start using the Starchoice employed installer (We have one of these in a neigboring community)...So I get on the phone again and am told that they could do business with me as long as they (Radio Shack) was willing to bill Starchoice directly for the work and then pay me and only if I was able to do all the installs for all the Radio Shack stores across Canada!!

I earn about 60% of my income from a number of chain store contracts that I have...

I have tried not to sell the product in such a way as to annoy these retail stores (they don't like to give me work if I am competing with them)...

These stores have tried the big designated install company here in the West and didn't like the service...

They want to continue to have me do their work and are mad that they are being told that they can not do business with the person of their choice...

Its not good...The only thing I have over you is that I am an authorized dealer and can at least continue to sell and install systems I have sold...

dlg
07-20-2002, 03:18 PM
You are a little behind rfinder as this was discussed earlier in the Off topic forun, under "installer shakeup". Its sounds like you don't have store front therefore you really weren't in contention for this position. You have to be able to stock at least 30 to 50 units for customers that direct purchase from starchoice and your territory will be large. You daytimer is to be controlled by starchoice as they will tell you where and when to go for installs. Unless you have several employees and available vehicles you are left out of the loop.

Not good news, however, the last fax alert allowed for implementation of designates to perform overload or addition support. You could apply for that scrap of bone from starchoice. Most dealers though that are allowed to do their own installs will receive the NEW number from starchoice will most likely get to fill the need there.

The old system wasn't good however you know as well as most that this new system really won't work successfully as starchoice would hope. Territories are to large for most and the payscale has been reduced. Storefronts are great but don't service the industry after hours.

Changes to this program will be modified as customers start getting fed up with the wait times and switch providers. Depending on your contacts you might be able to charge your customers for your service if they wish to pay rather than wait. Let starchoice figure out how to reimburse these customers. Also I'm sure the database each dumped installer should have might make use for some type of creative marketing.

dlg
07-20-2002, 03:26 PM
Skyway, if you recieve your new number from starchoice you should be able to do other installs as well. If the retailer calls you directly you will do the install and attach your number to the account and process the new claim form. Without the preactivaion process the designated installer won't get sent the work order, thereby, letting you install, activate, and process paperwork. This hinges on how much the store wants you to do their installs. Radio Shack is bad as they don't like to recommend an installer because if you screw up it reflects on them. Head office policy, however, like I say it will depend on your local RS should they decide to change protocol.

GOD
07-20-2002, 09:33 PM
Hang on...it's going to be a fun ride ! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Skyway
07-21-2002, 02:35 AM
Thats the way I thought it was going to work, but not what I was told yesterday when I talked to George Assad (The Starchoice regional installation manager)...

And I believe the reason why is because they have a Starchoice employed installer in my area...That wants all the work...

dlg
07-21-2002, 04:48 AM
Well, he might want all the work but if you get called to do the install direct from the retailer, he will not get it. He can complain if he finds out about it but all the retailer has to do is to threaten not to sell starchoice and then see things change. Apparently that is what I have been hearing from some of my contacts. Promomtion of starchoice products will be taking a back seat if dealer "x" is allowed to install. Its getting in to an area of conflict and most dealers will soon opt out if they feel they are getting ripped off of spin-off sales of accessories or addtional systems.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-22-2002, 12:35 AM
"He can complain if he finds out about it but all the retailer has to do is to threaten not to sell starchoice and then see things change. Apparently that is what I have been hearing from some of my contacts."

To threaten.....is unprofessional.

Threats to the hand that feeds you is what SC intends to clean-up. I personally think that the attitude of threatening is not beneficial to the industry or the customer. One has to respect the person who pays for the service charge. In this case...SC has the "choice" to choose who they wish to represent them for service...it's not their television...but it's their "money" paying for the service.It's their business decision.

No dealer has the birthright to threaten SC for the service business. No where is this written.

Just another opinion.I'm not going to say anymore in public.

Retailers and installers would be better-off approaching the SC decision makers with more tact and intelligence. A few savvy installers have been successful in approaching this matter with a professional business plan and presentation to SC...and getting what they wanted.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-23-2002, 04:35 AM
Yeah, I know George quite well. Now that Shaw is running the show, they are structuring the company exactly the way Shaw cablesystems was run for years. Mr. Assad and Mr. Worthington spent many years working for Shaw and now these gentlemen are in control, implementing the same ideas. Unfortunately they will realize that Satellite is a different breed of cat and they will have to make some exceptions along the way. I hope they scrap the flat defective service call fee of $ 50.00 and start allowing installers to charge travel time for rural customers. Another issue of contention among many installers is being sent out to do a service call and having to spend 2+ hours fixing the previous installer's horrible workmanship and replacing his substandard cable and connectors, and not being able to charge Starchoice a penny extra for it. They have to make some changes in their "shaw cable" code structure to accomodate these problem areas. I hope this makes installers so mad that they refuse to do the work, I know I've had to refuse certain calls because they just weren't feasible for me to do them, I wasnt making any money.

MrVH
07-23-2002, 07:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

To threaten.....is unprofessional.

<hr></blockquote>
While I usually agree with you Star2000, I do not on this account. If the word "threat" is what is causing the problem, we can call it something else "a decision".

It's the only pull that the independant dealer or installer has. I will decide to sell your product or I will not decide to sell your product. And it is the way many independant dealers survive in the cut-throat business of this world. For example:

I was just talking to a friend of mine who owns a building supplies store. They are an independant in a small town. They sell Brand X spetic tanks and are a stocking dealer. They have sold many thousands of dollars of these septic tanks in the last year. Now, in this small town they see a Brand X truck with 3 Brand X septic tanks on the truck (approximately $2500 worth) going to a local contractor. Building supply store calls up Brand X and says, "You have a decision to make, you provide us with the margin we lost on your direct sale in our area, or we no longer stock or sell your product. We will go with Brand Y. Look at the purchasing in the last year, who do you want as your business partner? Make your decision." You know what? They paid them the lost margin and apologized.

To threaten "a decision" is many times the only 'pull' that the independant dealer has and is not unprofessional, but a means of surviving corporate shennanigins.

"SC has the "choice" to choose who they wish to represent them for service...it's not their television...but it's their "money" paying for the service."
Let me rephrase /forums/images/icons/smile.gif "The independant has the "choice" to choose who they wish to represent... it's not their television... but it's their service that they are providing.

So if it is Star Choice's intention to get rid of this only 'power' that the independant has, yet retain that same power for themselves, then they will quickly be on the losing end of many decisions. It is Star Choice's freedom to make this change, but I do not believe it is a wise move, and in reality, I don't actually think this is what they are trying to accomplish. Their 'motivations' as far as I understand in talking with several different people is to get the installs back into the hands of the local dealer/installer and stop the large installer groups. The way they are implementing though is slightly off target I think. They are creating 'district installer groups'. Granted they will be ending the 'zonal installer groups' (ie. province-wide, country-wide) but will be creating a smaller version of the same thing. Will it work? Time will tell... and only if they listen to these installers.

GOD
07-23-2002, 09:56 AM
I'm right along side of you MrVH on this one !!!!

Skyway
07-23-2002, 03:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Their 'motivations' as far as I understand in talking with several different people is to get the installs back into the hands of the local dealer/installer and stop the large installer groups. The way they are implementing though is slightly off target I think. They are creating 'district installer groups'.

<hr></blockquote>

I may be biased since their new business plan will likely put me out of business if I don't aggresively look for other forms of work (more BellExpressVu work, etc).

It appears to me that they are trying to lead people to believe this while they use different methods in different areas to suite their own interests...In my area they have hired a Shaw/Starchoice installer and want to force the chain stores to use this installer, sending any overflow to the these large installer groups, when these stores want me to do their work and have had bad experiences using these same large installer groups in the past...

dlg
07-23-2002, 03:33 PM
My apologies to star2000 that I used an incorrect term for describing the feedback I am getting from some of the retailers about this new change. The actual quote was "we will not actively promote starchoice sales". The use of that unprofessional word was only to save space. I now am wondering how I should describe the next bit of info I am hearing. I know installers that have worked hard over the last 5 years putting starchoice in part to where they are. Now mind you, it might be sour grapes, however their new mission in life is to change their customers perspective. Yes this could snowball and end up bitting the hand that feeds them however, from the start of "we are partners to the simple satellite fiasco and now this, you really can't blame them for their negative thinking.

Skyway
07-23-2002, 03:47 PM
I have to agree with these comments...

I am the only authorized installation firm in my area that went to all of the Starchoice training sessions. I went and also paid an employee to go, when we had work that we could have been doing instead..

We were told that only installers that attend the training sessions would be authorized to do the work...

I am being told that I can no longer do work for the chain stores in my community...

The store managers are [censored] and are suggesting they will not suggest Starchoice to their clients as of Aug 1st since they also sell Bell...

One of the store managers suggested that his customers would very likely be willing to pay for the install rather than have to wait 1-2 weeks to get a FREE installation done...He is probably correct..Getting the work done within 1-2 days is a must...People don't want to wait when they are getting a new toy...

Its hard to say..It could be good for my sales (and the other indendants in my area)if I can provide immediate installs and the chain stores can not!!

dlg
07-23-2002, 03:49 PM
rfinder, it will only get worse as these companies hire anyone with a screwdriver to do installs miles from their shop, with no accountability because of location. Even when they will pay these employees mininal wage it will still not be profitable to return for any type of service. Not receiving timely service will be just as bad as "phone jam" and customers will switch. This switch might not be any better but once again the consumer has only a couple of options to excerise their discontent. Which brings me to this question. Why in the heck did they start this free install anyway? Customers pay for all other trades entering their home, why should satellite be any different. Sure it might generate sales at a retail level, but God help them if they now require service. JMO.

dlg
07-23-2002, 03:52 PM
Please tell us just what brand of "sales" would you be promoting!!

**DONOTDELETE**
07-23-2002, 04:21 PM
Well...it seems that I agree with MrVH also. I personally don't like the "national" install or service group concept either.All that was being done before was giving the service to a national group...I also think that local or regional service is the key. And yes...everyone has a business decision to make. I've seen too much shody workmanship in the installation business...so I fully understand.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-23-2002, 04:28 PM
"Why in the heck did they start this free install anyway? Customers pay for all other trades entering their home, why should satellite be any different. "

It's a lifetime service to the outdoor components.It's bold and an innovative first in customer service. It's value to the customer. It's product differentiation. It's a compelling reason to choose the product when compared to others. It's more that the competitor can offer. What's negative about that?

dlg
07-23-2002, 05:21 PM
The only real shody work I have seen in this business comes from the self install homeowner. Sure the installer is going to cut corners but at least I see them trying to hide cables and have some concept of the tools required to make the job safe, work good and look like something. Do you really think that cutting the install rate and sticking with rate per kilometer and increasing operating territories that this will reflect on better installs? And about the free installs, they might be inovative but you don't get quality jobs when they are all paid the same. I've done enough to know that there isn't enough "easy ones" to make up for the ones that should be $250.00. And with the mind set of the customer as "free install", don't think charging them extra gives them a warm fuzzy feeling.

Skyway
07-23-2002, 10:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Please tell us just what brand of "sales" would you be promoting!!

<hr></blockquote>

I am not openly promoting the sale of either product at this time...Because I do not want to upset or compete with the chain stores that I install for...but depending on the outcome of these issues Aug 1st when these new policies are completely put into play, I may be forced to either become very competitive in sales or decide on a different career...

MrVH
07-24-2002, 01:34 AM
I had a long talk today with someone mentioned and these installer areas are huge. This is definitely not much of a jog away from 'zonal installer groups'. The Williams Lake (BC) installer has from Quesnel all the way down through to Cache Creek... that is 5 hours driving time between the two. Quesnel is a city of about 8-10,000 and more than an hour's drive from Williams Lake, surely there is a dealer there who should have preference. 100 Mile House is a town of around 6,000 and is over an hour south of Williams Lake, I know a dealer/installer there who is one of BC's tops. CacheCreek/Ashcroft should be covered from either Kamloops or Lillooet (or themselves, there is a small dealer/installer there).

Myself, I was basically offered from Squamish to Lillooet to Gold Bridge to Seton Portage to Boston Bar... a HUGE area. Basically I would be the contractor and I would have to find subcontractors to service those areas... I guess the thinking is that I would approach the current dealers/installers in those areas. My question would be why doesn't Star Choice automatically use them without me having to subcontract to them? I don't understand, it doesn't make sense. I'm not going to go and ask if a current dealer wants to work for me... I'd feel like a heel!

I had a good conversation in regards to going to my outlieing areas back in the mountains. 'They' do not expect me to go for the basic rates (phew!) and it would be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. I'm ok with that, as I don't expect a lot of service calls out to those areas anyways. The person I was talking with seemed very understanding as to the enormouse costs involved in servicing those areas and the need to reimburse the dealer/installer fairly and adequately. I mentioned my current practices of not offering Simple Satellite installations and service to those areas and they were absolutely fine with that. The 'rub' comes when the unit has been purchased out of area, or it's a 'Move' customer. This is something that needs finalization.

The core idea in all this is good, but the implementation of it leaves much to be desired. Giving out these huge regional zones is just asking for heartache and dissatisfaction... that should be addressed post haste, IMO.

GOD
07-24-2002, 02:23 AM
It would be nice if they could provide us with a Toll Free ph # for our regional contact with this program . Those calls cut into 45 bucks rather fast .

**DONOTDELETE**
07-24-2002, 02:34 AM
The only real shody work I have seen in this business comes from the self install
homeowner


I would beg to differ. Some so-called professionals out there should never have gotten into the business in the first place.

Staples
S#$%ty connectors
using deck screws to mount a dish on cedar shakes
not tightening connections
not assembling dishes according to instructions
bending and creasing coax beyond its capabilities
Ect Ect
I've seen work so bad that if the same lack of care and attention was applied to high voltage power lines, we would all have our houses burnt down.

I'll have class and not mention any names.

dlg
07-24-2002, 03:05 AM
And here I thought the Simple Satellite training coarse fixed all that!

Greg921
07-24-2002, 03:58 AM
Good One!

**DONOTDELETE**
07-24-2002, 05:49 AM
Do you really think any of Starchoice's direct intervention with the installation business has had long term positive results?

If it aint broke, dont fix it.

All simple satellite ever did was make it easy for these slap jack installers to throw up the dish, drop the cable, hook up the receiver to the tv in the easiest possible way and get the UA number and customer info.

They didnt have to do a good job to win the customer's approval, all they needed was a signature and didnt have to collect cash from the customer. In the early days of satellite installations, the industry standard requirement was for an installation company to offer and stand behind a 90 day warranty to the customer.
With Simple Sat, that commitment went out the window as every installer knew that he had nothing to worry about because Star Choice in their 20/20 hindsight never anticipated that the retailer/installer would take advantage of it.

I've seem one local company get away with absolute murder.

Dear Mr. Worthington, please lose the simple satellite program. Your corporation will be paying out too much cash in trying to fix all these bad installs. Put the retailing and service back into the hands of smaller local companies who've had years of experience in the Sat industry. Let the locals pay for and fix these problems.

Prediction: Simple Satellite Program Terminated April 2003. Stocks down, disconnects rise sharply after Sep 1 Price hike, subscribership not reaching expected goal of 830,000 by Sept, shareholders pulling out, profits down, operating costs on steady increase due to ill fated simple sat program.

Installations chargeable to customer at going rate.

If it aint broke, dont try to fiddle F@#$ with it!

dlg
07-24-2002, 03:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Do you really think any of Starchoice's direct intervention with the installation business has had long term positive results?

<hr></blockquote>

Yes,for Bell Express Vu.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Simple Satellite Program Terminated April 2003. Stocks down, disconnects rise sharply after Sep 1

<hr></blockquote>

Don't you mean April 2002?

MrVH
07-24-2002, 04:13 PM
I totally disagree with the "drop Simple Satellite" talk. It is, in my opinion, the number one reason for sales at Star Choice and will continue to be. It is a great plan for the consumer, even if there are still some kinks to be worked out. The plan itself is excellent, innovative, and bold, and I believe the only real thing that will aid in market penetration into the urban cable market.

dlg
07-24-2002, 04:35 PM
You are probably right and this latest confusion over the installation process has really nothing to do with the customer and the SS benifits for them. That being said I can't imagine the thinking behind the changes that affect both dealers and installers. Regardless if you are a dealer/installer or just an installer you should be responsible for your work at a local level. Poor work is soon found out in both situations and customer satisfaction dictates wether or not you stay in business. Starchoice mixing this up and leaving everyone with a bad taste in their mouth only serves to affect the actual product rather than the area thats of concern. JMO

SatMike
07-24-2002, 05:58 PM
I know a dealer that sells both systems. He says it is very hard to sell bev now when competing against the Simple Satellite benefits.

Usually when the customer is dead set on purchasing bev it is for a reason that can't be discussed here.

dlg
07-24-2002, 06:51 PM
This may be true at a retail level for some dealers. Its funny how the salesperson has the ability to affect the customers purchase in spite of the current perks available for the product. If the salesperson is unbiased, consumers usually buy what their friends, family and neighbors are the most happy with. In the past Starchoice has had a problem getting the service work orders out in a timely fashion. If this continues and accelerates with installers trying to cover larger territories, the $150 they save on the free installation won't seem so great then. But then, who cares, its all about numbers right?

MrVH
07-24-2002, 07:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

If this continues and accelerates with installers trying to cover larger territories...

<hr></blockquote>
From my conversations that I've had in trying to understand this 'newer' way of doing things, we are missing the point... Star Choice does not actually want that regional installer to cover the whole huge area. Star Choice wants him to be responsible for finding qualified installers to cover that region. I don't necessarily agree with that process, but if done how Star Choice wants it done, there should be no change from the consumers point of view. As I mentioned in my last post.. if I had taken the Whistler area it would be my responsibility to find an installer in that area, I would not be expected to travel that 2 hours to do the service.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the way it's being implemented, but I think I undertstand what Star Choice is attempting to do.

dlg
07-24-2002, 09:30 PM
Basically what you are saying is that you have all the headaches as you process the paperwork, wait to get paid, pay communication costs, are responsible for the quality of work, you pay the installer with benifits.(CPP and UI at the least) The installer gets hurt and sues your [censored]. I can see where this is good for starchoice but I am missing something about where it is good for you, especially at the current "lowered" rates. ("You" of coarse being used as a figure of speech and not meant to reflect your personal decision)

MrVH
07-24-2002, 10:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Basically what you are saying is that you have all the headaches as you process the paperwork, wait to get paid, pay communication costs, are responsible for the quality of work, you pay the installer with benifits.(CPP and UI at the least)

<hr></blockquote>
Yup... and that's why I don't like it. I should note though that if you are contracting the work out you are not responsible for benefits nor CPP/EI.

GOD
07-24-2002, 10:49 PM
" In the early days of satellite installations, the industry standard requirement was for an installation company to offer and stand behind a 90 day warranty to the customer."
--------------------------------------------------

Those guidelines are still in affect with Simple Satellite . All workmanship has to be warranted for 90 days by the installer .

Skyway
07-24-2002, 11:34 PM
Thats the strange part?? Even though we are required to gaurantee our install to SC for 90 days they don't seem to be enforcing this...

We have been asked many times to go and fix installs performed by other firms in our area...and I do not believe that SC has even informed the origional installers of the deficiencies, such as failure to ground the system or not mounting the dish securely etc...

They have never to my knowledge ever tried to demand quality work from the people that are not providing them with a quality install...

They should simply be checking the work and give perhaps a few warnings regarding deficiencies and then stop using the installer if they don't improve...

When I told the district manager that they wouldn't be able to get better work by reducing the rate of pay..His response was that they were not getting quality work from the installers when they were paying the higher rate..

dlg
07-25-2002, 12:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

they were not getting quality work from the installers when they were paying the higher rate..


<hr></blockquote>
So instead of raising the rate, actually doing some training at a training seminar instead of promo BS, doing some spot checks on installs, monitoring service call numbers per installer, they decided to lose additional control over the install process. Do you really think they will achieve consistant quality work across Canada? Maybe the free install won't turn out to be such a bold, innovative move after all. The district managers would have been better coming to town and checking the last few installs that were done instead of handing out vouchers for free restaurant meals.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-25-2002, 12:48 AM
Yeah but how strictly is it enforced? I keep hearing talk about Starchoice hiring an audit man for each area.
I dont see any of it happening as of yet.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-25-2002, 02:04 AM
Here is a suggestion. The 2-way satellite data guys in commercial installs use digital photos as part of their reporting process. You will give good credibility on reporting sloppy workmanship or shody work within 90days if you sent SC digital photos of the "last guys" work. You may even get the rest of the service calls and gain a lot of respect.

I know that when a Wendys install is done on a VSAT system... some of the installer submits digital photos as part of the completition and reporting process...or he doesnt get paid. Very professional... and good for insurance claims also....

VSAT installers and contractors need a digital camera and PC notebook with modem if he wants to get serious amounts of service work.I know that some commercial customers qualify their installers this way... I think the rest of the satellite industry should follow suit and become more professional. Naturally...$50 flat rate for a service call is not always professional....it would also depend on local business conditions and practices.

GOD
07-25-2002, 02:41 AM
Basically I know of no problems in our area from bad installs . In the 50 mile radius that I might sell and install systems I haven't noticed any bad workmanship from any of the independent dealers/intallers .Ourselves...we have never had to go back because of a bad install . It is discouraging though when a CSR tells a customer the reason your receiver is not working is because the installer used rg59...which was total BS[I have never ever even bought a roll of 59 in 6 years] as I went and looked and it was a bad 305...nuff said !!! BUT...I cannot speak for any of the Chain Stores...I have no idea who does their work...I can only tell you that when it is your sale and install and your bread and butter...you do it right !!! I think I can safely say that ALL independent dealers/who self install live by those words . Now if only the chains could get their act cleaned up we might be able to put this mess behind us !!!

dlg
07-25-2002, 04:25 AM
I have paid for a digital camera several times over with the commercial satellite work I have used it for. All of the US commercial work I have contracted for required pictures a few years back already. The only area that seems not to require pictures was home entertainment. It would not have been unreasonalbe, being as they were not able to check every install, that pictures should have been mandatory. Maybe the SS should have made that a requirement and we wouldn't be in this mess. I wouldn't even know where to submit a picture to starchoice, never mind get any action taken.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-25-2002, 05:02 AM
Well, we've talked at great lengths about Shaw Choice and Simple Sat. BEV and SC have played the one-upmanship game for a few years now. I wish I was a fly on the wall listening to the conversations taking place at Bev headquarters. I wonder what they have up thier sleeves as far as a nationwide service program. I would almost think that they would keep things as status quo for now since they keep telling us they arent making money. A local rep from BXI claims they've invested too much into Centre Ice, Vu, HDTV, interactive and launching Nimiq1. Now it's time to pay off the bank loans. No money left over for exploratory ventures. I wonder what BEV churn rates are now compared to Shaw Choice.

GOD
07-25-2002, 09:20 PM
Maybe you should start another topic on that as this one is about SC Install work...just a suggestion .

dlg
07-26-2002, 09:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Myself, I was basically offered from Squamish to Lillooet to Gold Bridge to Seton Portage to Boston Bar... a HUGE area. Basically I would be the contractor and I would have to find subcontractors to service those areas... I guess the thinking is that I would approach the current dealers/installers in those areas. My question would be why doesn't Star Choice automatically use them without me having to subcontract to them?

<hr></blockquote>
Were you able to retain some of the area or was it all or nothing? Were you able to tell if *c was open to negotiations concerning the large territories?

MrVH
07-26-2002, 10:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Were you able to retain some of the area or was it all or nothing? Were you able to tell if *c was open to negotiations concerning the large territories?

<hr></blockquote>
I retained the areas I requested, which was not the larger territory, but a 'logical' territory. I suggested a couple of companies that they contact in Whistler and Squamish for those areas, and yes they were very open to my suggestions and seemed like they were even greatly appreciated my input.

I just got 5 direct sales installation work orders today for a very outlieing area... over a mountain literally, right over top, back in the bush about 2 hrs on logging roads one way. I am in contact with Star Choice regarding the rates for these installs. I know they have already been passed-on by another installer, who is much further away then I am (why they went there first I have no idea) so I will be demanding certain terms and if not met suggest they find another installer even though these are in the territory now assigned to me. I am the closest installer to these outlieing areas even though I am quite some distance, so if Star Choice wishes to offer Simple Satellite to everyone everywhere they will have to decide if they also want to pay for it. I am recommending certain rates for the installs which, while they don't make me rich, do cover my expenses and a portion of profit... exactly the way it should be.

This will be my first 'test' of the system, the outcome will decide whether I choose to remain a Simple Satellite installer/servicer or not.

GOD
07-26-2002, 11:27 PM
"(why they went there first I have no idea) "

Well MrVH they tell me it is random and it is done by Postal Codes and they cannot break it down with the new computer program . I gave them a list of Postal Codes I could do but they told me that I would have to take all the work in the codes that started with the first 3 #/Letters which I informed them was impossible and they told me if I could not do it to just fax it back and they would assign it to somebody else ...which just causes more downtime for the consumer IMO .I wanted to utilize the last 3 #/letters in the Postal Code...but they won't .

I got one today that involved 120 miles in a round trip so I faxed it back saying NOPE to it . I left at 7 AM and was home at 6PM then I sent it back as it arrived here when I was away . So I suspect that customer will be waiting until next week for a service call from somebody . I don't blame that on the girls here running the program...but whoever designed the computer program for this should look at making some changes that only make SO MUCH SENSE IMO !

GOD
07-27-2002, 12:13 AM
OH BTW....Star Choice had a guy around here today checking out our Simple Satellite installs .....an inspection !!! I talked with another dealer and his was fine and the guy wondered why he did not seal all the connectors with sealant for waterproofing and not just some,he,my dealer friend, replied "that it was not mandatory under Simple Sat"....and I haven't got a report on our installs as of yet as I was out all day .

So...they are out there checking the SS stuff ...which is good IMO .

dlg
07-27-2002, 12:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

why he did not seal all the connectors with sealant for waterproofing

<hr></blockquote> Isn't the use of a rated waterproof connector adequate? Do SS guidelines require additional sealant be added? Doesn't most sealant harbor moisture which in turn accelerates deteriation? Do those little starchoice rubber booties count as extra sealant? Enquiring minds need to know.

GOD
07-27-2002, 01:51 AM
We never use sealant . Haven't had any moisture probs here yet . The guy did not rag about it...he was just curious as to why the dealer did not use it on every install .

He also told my bud that snap and seal connectors would soon be mandatory . So....don't stock up on the other ones .

dlg
07-27-2002, 02:56 AM
Actually I use the stirling spl connectors and apparently they are rated the same as the S&amp;S. The bonus is they are a lot easier to install, have a nickel finish and when installed the hex head is tighter with the body making for a more positive contact without being overtightened. I found the snap and seals a little to sloppy. Personal preference, I guess.
http://www.stirlingcanada.com/images/spl_main_pic.jpg
Thanks MrVH, I've always wanted to do this.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-01-2002, 02:24 AM
I've used those Stirling SPL's for over a year now. They look great, work awsome and much cheaper than the T &amp; B SNS56.

Best price i've found in the country was P &amp; T Supply in Hamilton. $ 42 per 100

Does anyone know of a better price?

Let me know.

BTW silicone over the connectors causes moisture trapping and eventual corrosion. Leave the SPL bare or use the rubber boot.

Bent
08-01-2002, 01:03 PM
awesome bulk price, Radio Shack chrges 3 buck each for stirlings, and I still think they are worth it.

Have you used stirling's right angle connectors yet?
I bet they would look like a million bucks when installed on the dual quad...

dlg
08-01-2002, 02:29 PM
The spl right angle connector looks cool, however, I would think that for the quad it would not drop down enough to allow the rubber boot to be installed.