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View Full Version : Bev's HDTV prioities distrub me !!!



**DONOTDELETE**
03-11-2002, 03:06 PM
Its all about their priorities. There are current 2 hdtv channles. One is pretty well allocated to "pay per view" and the second channel is to serve as a demo channel of hdtv for the retailers.
Anybode with a hdtv setup would much rather see upconverions that watch upteen reruns of some obscure lacrosse game or the dreaded "demo" loop.
My perspective of Bev's warped hdtv programing prioities:
Priority one: generate "pay per view" revenu...Very short sighted.
Priority two: to supply a continuous hdtv feed to retailers... Most people interested in hdtv probably know someone with a hdtv setup and they would consult them before buying. They will learn that Bev provide 3-4 hours of hdtv entertainment a day.
Last prioity : to supply hdtv programming to the customers who bought and paid for the 6000.

I_M_Norm_Al
03-11-2002, 03:27 PM
Hence you can understand why an expensive 4DTV setup is the choice many have made for HD

LivingLegend
03-11-2002, 03:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Last prioity : to supply hdtv programming to the customers who bought and paid for the 6000.

<hr></blockquote>

I think BEV is in an unenviable quandry when it comes to the management of their limited capacity for HD signals; they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

If they choose to show "all HD all the time," we complain about the crappy demo loop and demand upconverts.

If they show upconverts, as they used to, we complain we're not getting enough true HD.

The bottleneck is their stubborn persistence to wring every last possible penny from endless repeats of their HD-PPV programming. Free that channel up during primetime and we suddenly have options for our HD viewing!

That's what happened during the Olympics and I really hoped BEV would take the positive buzz generated by their management of its limited HD bandwidth during that two week period and run with it. No such luck. Guess we just gotta keep waiting for the new bird.

Arthur
03-11-2002, 04:10 PM
If it's widescreen show us the upconvert, if its not widescreen forget it.

I will pay $0 per month PPV, I will pay $5 more per month if bell uses that channel for upconverted widescreen.

I will pay $10 per month if they limit the Demo loop to 2 mins at the top of every hour.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-11-2002, 04:28 PM
Reality is that most TV is still produced in 4:3 format and letterman, the today show, six feet under, weekend sports (and whatever else) look way better when upconverted to hdtv... Not as good as a true 16:9 hdtv show but if there's no hdtv available, I would rather watch an upconvert of the today show than the upteenth rerun of the lacrosse game!

RUU
03-11-2002, 05:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Priority one: generate "pay per view" revenu...Very short sighted.

<hr></blockquote>

I dunno. There's a thread over on AVS where someone has tried to record HDPPV Shrek "50 times" without dropouts, so obviously there must be some demand for it.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-11-2002, 08:06 PM
Ya, do you think that American guy actually paid 50 times 5.49 ? My guess is he's using a "black market " system. My point is Bev should be trying to give their logged 6000 users the best programming with the limited bandwidth that available for HDTV ... that's where their future revenues will be! It just seems like common sense business to me.

Geoff
03-11-2002, 10:08 PM
Sorry but I disagree 100%.
I DO NOT want ANY upconverts on any of the BEV HD channels , period.
I went through that nonsense with SC and I do not want to see it on BEV.
NOTHING BUT HD ON THE HD CHANNELS.

however ,
they could use the bandwidth better during times of conflict as Living Legend had suggested but no upconverts.
BTW , the lacross has been repeated the next day, no big deal.I would rather see lacross HD at 2 in the afternoon than Jerry Springer upconverted even if it was the 10th time today , even though it's not.

BTW , some people around here seemed to think that SC couldn't get HDNet because they don't have CI.Since BEV now has lacross from HDNet , is it safe to assume that CI has nothing to do with it ?

Arthur
03-11-2002, 11:47 PM
So you where against them showing the Super Bowl?

Big_Cheese
03-12-2002, 01:40 AM
Hey Geoff - got your P4 card yet?

Geoff
03-12-2002, 01:58 AM
The Super Bowl looked like crap , however 480p is better than 480i upconverted.
Crap in , crap out.
I do not need a HD channel used for the news , Millionaire , Fear Factor , etc.
Give me any of the loops over that any day.

RUU
03-12-2002, 02:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

BTW , some people around here seemed to think that SC couldn't get HDNet because they don't have CI.Since BEV now has lacross from HDNet , is it safe to assume that CI has nothing to do with it ?

<hr></blockquote>

No, since the out of region Sportsnet lacrosse broadcasts come up with the same blackout message one sees for out of region NHL games.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-12-2002, 04:45 PM
Wow, it never dawned on me that there were customers who would prefer the 20 hours a day hd loop to actual programming. I was sure that Bev were doing it for the dealers. I was wrong.
I have a progressive scan dvd player and the complete bev package and as far as picture quality is concerned, the only thing that beats an upconvert is true hdtv.
When bev were passing the pseudo hdtv from the us boston networks, we got to see pga,nfl, conan and letterman ,etc and I miss it. I think Bev should be programming entertainment and not "how great hdtv could look".
Bev are not resposible for producing hdtv content, but I gotta believe most people would rather watch the pga this weekend than the upteenth rerun of the loop.
BTW, in all the time I watched, Bev never showed an upconvert of "jerry springer"

snoman
03-12-2002, 05:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Give me any of the loops over that any day.

<hr></blockquote>

You mean to say if BEV were to put up a 1080i HD test pattern you would prefer that to upconverted real programming as well? Geoff you sound just like a guy who once said here "I only watch SDTV on my BEV".
I dunno about you sometimes man. Myself I like variety as much as possible on TV. To limit yourself to a few shows just because it looks good vs programming content.....
Oh well to each his own right?

Geoff
03-12-2002, 06:24 PM
Snoman,
I don't recall saying I only watch SD on BEV.I do recall saying that just about the only TV I watch is HD.If I want to watch the news , etc , I watch either in the upstairs 33" or in the bedroom.I don't know about you guys but I get all those other shows you speak of on Global , CBS , CTV , etc.I don't need them on my HD channel aswell.If you want to throw on FOX 480p fine but not "regular" programing.SC tried it,and as usual it was too hard to figure out.

Snoman , I'll be more specific with my loops.Give me PBS, the New York loop, the space shuttle.Not the air show one and not the test pattern.
However a test pattern every hour for 5 minutes would be cool to calibrate my projector with HD.
Hmm, let me think about that one.
Once again I get Letterman on 25 other channels , I don't need it on my HD unless it's HD.

Arthur
03-12-2002, 07:02 PM
I guess it boils down to what you want to watch, example:
Enterprise
I can watch it on reg channel *C or Xvu, over compressed.
I can watch it on T5 16 C band, much better.
But if someone were to upconvert the T5 feed to HD it would be the best available to me and I would be very happy until something better came along.

The only use I can see for the demo loop after seeing it 2 or 3 times is to show off the HD set and I didn't buy it for the neighbours so who cares as long as I like it.

Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitle to want something different than me, I would just rather I get what I want and they be disappointed with my likes or dislikes. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Geoff
03-12-2002, 08:01 PM
Instead of our efforts going to try and get upconverts on the HD channel , shouldn't we be trying to get better use of the 2 HD channels that we have such as resolving conflicts between 2 HD programs?
I would much rather debate about that than whether or not Letterman SD should be on the HD channel.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-12-2002, 09:05 PM
I want as much true hdtv as possible but I'm a realist. Bev doesn't create programming...they distribute it and until there's more real hdtv, I'll be satisfied with upconverts. I don't know how *choice was skrewing up the upconverts but Bev had a handle on it and I don't know why they abandoned it! I do agree that fox widescreen should take priority when upconverting.

Geoff
03-12-2002, 10:32 PM
For the record, SC thought they would show upconverts when there were no HD programing.The problem was that they were showing upconverts "instead" of HD programs.One of SC HD's proudest moments.

madbob
03-12-2002, 10:46 PM
I emailed BEV yesterday:

As a long time Expressvu subscriber I am beginning to become very upset with how the HDTV programming is scheduled. I live in the Vancouver area but since Leno has been on the air we don`t get western time zone feeds anymore. I understand that Expressvu has only enough bandwidth for two HDTV stations at one time(until the new sat is up) but why can`t Expressvu schedule HDPPV at times when there is nothing else on. Also why is CBS the only Seattle station HDTV programming is ever shown on? Why is no programming from ABC or Leno from KING ever on ?
I realize that Expressvu is trying to compete with Rogers superior HDTV offerings ,but don`t forget your western customers.


They phoned me at home this morning to tell me they would forward my concerns on to the programing dept. but that their HDTV priority is HDPPV not network tv.

Geoff
03-12-2002, 10:50 PM
They phoned you ?
That's kinda cool. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

I guess they must be making money at and if they are I can't blame them but with the exception of the guy at AVS who tried to tape it 50 times /forums/images/icons/wink.gif I can't imagine alot of people watching it.
Maybe the guy at AVS blew it for everyone.Now they think Everybody wants it. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

konechny
03-13-2002, 03:25 AM
I agree with Geoff on this. With high end video equip. it is much more easier to distinguish between upcons and the real thing (I think). Upcons tend to be fuzzier and scan lines are not as visible as with the real thing. For example with the demo loop I can see scan lines at 720p and easily at 1080i. And yes a test pattern would be cool to calibrate my CRT projector.

By the way Geoff how your 3100 working these days I noticed you havent posted lately on the AVSforum. I assume you have your 3100 mastered and tweaked to the nines!! I'm still puttzin with mine, it's addictive!!

LivingLegend
03-13-2002, 03:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

their HDTV priority is HDPPV not network tv.

<hr></blockquote>

Ouch!

Sounds to me like BEV should invest in a little market research.

I don't imagine anyone here invested in an expensive HDTV and 6000 receiver set-up for HDPPV. Especially when those movies have already been out on dvd for a few months before they're even released to PPV.

The statistical and anecdotal evidence shows the number of HDTV's that have been sold in the past few years FAR outstrips the number of HD receivers; most people buy their HD capable TV's for their superior capabilities to show dvd. And frankly, coupled to a progressive scan dvd player, they do a pretty fine job. The only thing that would possibly compel me to check out an HDPPV movie would be curiousity to see how it stacked up against my purchased dvd copy of said movie. And that might happen once, before I realize it ain't that much better. (now if PPV sports like championship boxing go HD in a big way, BEV might have an argument to sell its HD soul to PPV)

I unleashed my credit card on a 6000 receiver because I have become spoiled by the superior resolution of dvd, and I wanted my experience of network television and sports programming to achieve that same "wow" factor. HDPPV movies may do that as well, but they can't approach the convenience and tactile satisfaction of popping a disc into a player WHENEVER I WANT, pausing or turning it off WHENEVER I WANT, let alone the added features.

If BEV wants to generate REAL revenue from HD, get us some bandwidth, package all the network stuff that's available, PBS, live sports from HDNet, charge us 20 bucks a month, and let the good times roll.

konechny
03-13-2002, 03:33 AM
Spoiled by DVD is right. I watched StarWars on VHS and the scanlines were nausiating on a 6ft wide screen!

Geoff
03-13-2002, 04:31 AM
Yes the 3100 is running well.I recently replaced the green gun.I had a problem with "tiny water marks" on the inside of the crt.All is well now but the blue crt is a little out of focus.
With that in mind it blow away , still any LCD or DLP that I have seen including the Sony ...10.
LCD still has a way to go .
What problems are you having with the 3100?

konechny
03-13-2002, 05:13 AM
Hey Geoff, no real problems, I'm being picky! I recently mounted it outside my theatre room to get more throw distance, bad thing is its about 12 inches off center. Which brings in a whole wack of minor issues such as green geometry, and scheimpflung (how ever you say it!)

If your blue is a little out it could be electronic focus (bias board)or mechanical. Have you tried doing a stig and flare adjustment on the blue? I agree, for now CRTs kick.

Later

Geoff
03-13-2002, 05:54 AM
What's a stig and flare adjustment?

snoman
03-13-2002, 11:41 AM
I didn't say you were the one only watching SDTV.
I think the poster's name was 'know it all' or something like that. It was when BEV made a big marketing bruhaha over it back when SC first started carrying real HDTV back when SC was a DTH company instead of a cable company.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-13-2002, 02:52 PM
No matter how ellaborate any of Bev's customer's hd set is , the best source for this weekend's "Bay Hill PGA invitational" would be if Bev carried the Boston NBC digtal feed. Why? Because (1) It's a digtal from the source signal (2) Its upconverted with expensive station equiptment and (3) it would use the full hdtv badwidth. Not as good as a true widescreen hdtv production but way better than the analog feed. I would watch the upconvert but I wouldn't waste my time with the analog.

Geoff
03-13-2002, 03:09 PM
you right , it will look better . how much better?On a 7' screen alot(relatively speaking) , on a 36" Sony, yea maybe but why eat up the channel when there is HD to show even if it PBS.Remember alot of PBS specials go un announced.You take the chance that alot of it will be missed because "Survivor" is on.No Rudy Maxi.
And how many HD set do you think Sears will sell if all that's on is an upconvert?
Not a good idea even from where I sit because the more HD sets sold , the more programing.

Let's get the ball rolling.don't stall it by showing "whatever" on the one and only HD channel most of us have.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-13-2002, 04:41 PM
I'm not on a $^&amp;*(%$^&amp; crusade! I just want to get the maximum enjoyment from this expensive equiptment. No offense but I think your arguement is rediculous.
Anybody have any idea when the US border station that feed the Montreal market (ie. Burlington,Vermont and Platsburg,NY) will start coming online?

Ranger_Gord
03-13-2002, 05:10 PM
You are best off contacting the station engineers directly - not only to find out their digital launch dates, but also to find out the digital signal contours.

Regardless BEV HD is not going to be the way to go for HD OTA for a number of reasons:
a) 1st generation OTA receivers such as found in E* 6000 are poor quality compared to present day OTA and OTA/DTV receivers

b) BEV wants you to sub and pay them. OTA and OTA/DTV receivers require no satellite hookup

c) BCE will want you to watch CTV HD simsubbed channels when NIMIQ2 up

If you are ever in the Detroit/Windsor area, you will see what the real state of the art HD is : 7 US digital nets OTA for free plus HBO/HDNet via DirecTv - all using 1 receiver

**DONOTDELETE**
03-13-2002, 05:23 PM
I dont think a) is necessarily true. Theres alot of variables. I have a Dish 6000 with OTA module for example, and it works just as well as a new DirecTv HD receiver that I have also when tuning into my 4 OTA digital channels.

As far as b) goes, while DirecTv HD receivers dont require a sat hookup to be able to function as OTA tuners, the Dish 6000 does. Not that you have to subscribe mind you, but the receiver must be getting a satellite stream of some kind or you'll never see anything more than "acquiring satellite signal" even when just trying to tune an OTA channel.

In regards to c) you could be right.

konechny
03-13-2002, 07:40 PM
It involves turning the magnets on the neck of the CRT gun.
There are are couple good posts about it on AVS forum. This helps thin your grid lines if they look too fat.

Geoff
03-13-2002, 08:08 PM
Would you take it over Smart Travels?
Maybe you would but I know others wouldn't.Remember Smart Travels is part of the loop.

Before BEV picked up PBS HD the upconvert thing made sense but in my opinion I would not pick upconvert over missing some great PBS HD programs unless these programs start appearing on the IPG.

BTW , snoman is the only member who can call my names ,rave. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

I'm out.

Geoff
03-14-2002, 12:26 AM
I'll give it a try Konechny.
Thanks.