looking to buy HT speakers [Archive]

DavidY

02-01-2002, 12:45 AM

The Polk RM6600 satellite/sub package lists for CDN$1650.

If you are in Canada, your best bet is probably one of the following speaker brands: PSB Image series or Paradigm Monitor series. For a bit more money, the Paradigm Reference series offers excellent performance for the buck.

An entry level sub that is well regarded by many HT enthusiasts is the Sony SAWM-40 which lists for CDN$300, but streets as low as CDN$240-$250. The Paradigm PW2200 is about three times the price (street CDN$700-$800), but offers better performance.

Dave

Grunge

02-01-2002, 2:56 AM

Ah, where to start. Personally, I am using all JBL Studio series (S38 fronts S-Centre and S26 rears). I cannot say enough about them. I have yet to come across a speaker this size with the accuracy and power handling these babies have. They can be a bit bright so room placement is important. I also have a pair of Sound Dynamics RS-7 towers, Cinesat rears and RSC-2 centre channel (for sale by the way!). These were my orignal set up and I only changed because of the room configuration I had. They are a very nice combo as well.

Prior to buying my JBL Studios I auditioned a lot of speakers, all of which have already been mentioned here; Energy, Paradigm, Mirage and Psb. IMO, all of these are excellent products and you can't go wrong. Let your ears (and pocket book) decide. Personally, I was surprised I ended up with the JBL's as I had a very strong bias against them. However, after spending most of an afternoon comparing them side by side with some others my mind was easily made up. I have also had a pair of Mirage FRx speakers (very nice) and presently use a Mirage Frx 15" sub and a Sound Dynamics 12" sub. I am happy with both. BTW, Sound Dynamics, Energy and Mirage are all made by the same Canadian company (in fact JBL recruited two of their sound engineers down south to design their new Northridge and Studio series)

Some other speakers worth checking out are NHT and, if your budget allows it, B&W or Signet (also Canadian). Although I hate slamming anything, I would caution you against Nuance speakers. They are a bit of a "mystery" speaker company in the industry. Check around and you will hear some good tales of their sales practices and if you can find an actual review and quoted list price for one of their speakers I would be surprised. Again, I don't want to slam so I will just leave it at that and let you do the homework.
Regardless of what you audition, use your own material (CD, DVD etc.) with which you are very familiar. All AV stores will always use reference quality material however you will generally get a better idea of the speakers "forgiveness" by playing something that isn't reference quality.

Good luck and enjoy. Speaker shopping is such fun.

Tup

02-01-2002, 3:32 AM

THere are some very good Canadian made speakers out there that are actually priced the same in $US as $Canadian. It has Americans making trips up here to buy speakers.

Check out PSB or Paradigm as the 2 most know...also Axiom and a whole slew of others.

Dede

02-01-2002, 1:33 PM

I believe Nuance may not be in business anymore. A friend was looking to buy a Nuance center speaker to match his Nuance mains and was told by the salesperson (who had sold him his Nuance previously) that they were no longer available.

I like PSBs myself.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/HomeTheaterST.html

PlusONE

02-01-2002, 5:24 PM

That's not true, I can pick up any size/series of Nuance speakers from International stereo. I picked up mine about less than 2 months ago.

Bent

02-01-2002, 5:32 PM

<a target="_blank" href=http://innerear.on.ca/electronicinteriors/angstrom-trinity.html>these</a> angstrom's are highly regarded as well, but they are NOT cookie cutter speakers, they are a bit different.

JohnnyG

02-01-2002, 7:05 PM

I've honestly heard nothing but horror stories about Nuance. If I'm not mistaken, people on Home Theater Forum put them in the same league as the 'white van' speakers.

Sow_Man

02-01-2002, 8:22 PM

They were being dumped on EBay about 2 months ago with No Reserve

DavidY

02-01-2002, 11:13 PM

Several years ago, I went through the "Nuance" show and tell....the sales rep said something about "Q-sound" and how the buyer (me) is getting a great deal at half off....50% off several thousand dollars is not a good deal IMO. I had asked for "specs" and/or published reviews by well known mags....the sales rep said that they don't give them and that they don't allow reviews done on their Nuance line. Pretty fishy IMO. Red flag #1.

Looked at their construction...no dual speaker terminals for biamp or biwiring. Dual terminals are IMO a sign of good construction. They are common among speakers that cost several thousand dollars. Red flag #2.

A friend of mine told me that he bought a set of Nuance speakers. I didn't have the heart to tell him the "real" story.

The best bet is to stick with the tried and true speakers like Paradigm, Paradigm Reference, PSB, API (Energy, Mirage, Sound Dynamics, Athena), and Axiom.

Dave

Grunge

02-01-2002, 11:55 PM

Re Nuance. The proof is is in the mysterious lack of any public information. No web site, no advertising, no independant reviews etc., etc. etc..

Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://www.audioreview.com>www.audioreview.com</a> or run a search at Google and it will lead you to some very interesting discussions.

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 1:36 AM

Well as far as I'm concerned the ones I have are pretty good. And costed alot of money. (about $4000-$6000 dollars)
And they are very well built. But I will check this out. Thanks for the info.

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 1:39 AM

Also my Nuance speakers do have the dual terminals.
I will still check this out though, if I've been had. If that's the case I will take them back and get better/different brand name speakers.

Satellite_Expert

02-02-2002, 2:04 AM

These guys are giving some good advice - If you can get your money back - go for it. If 4 or 5 years from now you, for some reason need repair - good luck with Nuance problem. I guarantee that with a little shopping you will find better quality/value/sound

Grunge

02-02-2002, 5:21 AM

BTW, Q-Sound is a 3-D recording system engineered in Calgary by a company originally owned by Larry Ryckman (former Stampeders owner) back in the 90's. I believe originally the company was called Archer Communications. Ryckman's departure was not without controversy and there were some stock market issues etc. The company survived however has not "revolutionized" the audio industry as they intended to. I do recall that a couple major stars like Madonna did some recording with it and I believe it was Coke who used it on a Superbowl commercial some time ago, otherwise there hasn't been much else significant for them.

pauldryan

02-02-2002, 6:06 AM

PlusOne,

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but you've been swindled by a high pressure sales pitch. You must search Google and discover what people have been saying about those speakers. They would have been a reasonable purchase for several hundred....not thousand dollars. Do not delay; if you can get your money back or even a store credit, you would be much better off.

When purchasing audio speakers, loudness is not a criteria to be considered; you do want accuracy, and unfortunately Nuance products offer none of the latter due to their complete lack of engineering, and lowest cost components.

If this were a minor issue of paying a moderate premium over market price for a reasonable product...I would reserve comment for myself....but trust me, spending $4-6,000 on those speakers was a major mistake. For much less than half that cost, you could have received excellent speakers by many different manufacturers.

I_M_Norm_Al

02-02-2002, 1:02 PM

It is nice to see so many people jumping in here to point out the scam that has been perpetrated on PlusOne and so many others like him.

The same thing happened to my late father about 20 years ago. After spending a small fortune, for the only time in his life, on very good electronics; the store persuaded him that their high profit "Nuances" of that era were God's gift to the ear. Luckily, for my father, the store did not appreciate my loud mouth antics on a busy Saturday and my father got his money back for the "speakers"

Grunge

02-02-2002, 3:31 PM

Good work Norm_Al. I can recall those days when "store brand" speakers were very common. They looked cool, had reasonable power handling (if you enjoyed distortion) and incredible mark-up. They were always thrown into the package deals to make the system price "seem" like a great deal. Fortunately times have changed considerably, the industry has advanced significantly and cheap speakers are generally accepted for what they are, cheap speakers. Nothing wrong with them, they serve a certain market. The key is they are sold cheap. Unfortunately, Nuance is one of the exceptions to this rule and is a throw-back to the 70's. Frankly, I would think twice from dealing with any electronics store that promotes these sales practices. In fact I too was almost suckered into these at an annual "warehouse" event held by a certain store here in Calgary a few years ago. Fortunately, I got a second opinion from one of their video/TV sales guys (no longer there BTW) who I had formed a bit of a repoir with while looking at big screen TV's. I have had a lot of previous dealings with this retailer which have generally been favorable but their Nuance practices certainly left me a bit jaded. I believe they no longer promote Nuance as actively as before but I now remain somewhat skeptical of them all the same. JMHO. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 4:08 PM

Well I can't take them back now, I think it's to late. Any suggestions? What are good speakers, for about $4000 to $5000 grand? What store should I go to? I feel like I want to ring their neck for doing this to me. I hope I can take them back and get store credit.

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 4:27 PM

What are a good HT speakers/with Subwoofer(s) and that are priced around $2000-$4000? thanks

Geoff

02-02-2002, 4:43 PM

Paradigm Studio monitors 80 or 100, Paradigm servo -sub or PW-2200.
Can't go wrong with the above.

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 4:52 PM

I went to that audioreview web site and I now feel completly sick. I heard that Paradigm reference 100s are good. Are they?

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 4:54 PM

thanks for the advice from all of you guys. If I have a friend that wants to buy Nuance speakers, I will tell them not to even think about it.

Geoff

02-02-2002, 5:20 PM

went to that audioreview web site and I now feel completly sick. I heard that Paradigm reference 100s are good. Are they?
__________________________________________________

Yep.
So are the 80's .

Paradigm studio 80's. $1,000.00 US.
Studio / CC center channel $ 500.00 US
Studio/ADP 350 surround speaker (di - polar) $ 550.00 US
or
mini monitors
$300US

Servo Sub $1,000.00 US
____________

$3,050.00 US
============

DavidY

02-02-2002, 7:14 PM

IMO, I think that the Paradigm Reference Studio/80 are a bit muddy sounding as compared with the Studio/20. IMO, the main difference between the Studio/80 and all other Studio models (20,40,60,100) is the larger 8" woofer/midrange on the 80 model (all other models have a 6.5" woofer/midrange). Since the Studio/CC (matching centre) also have 6.5" drivers, the Studio/20/40/60/100 would be more timbre-matched. The 80 appears to the oddball out....go either the larger 100 or if budget minded, the smaller 60 instead (like the 80, both are floorstanders).

FWIW, I have the Studio/60 V.1 mains, CC-450 centre, and Studio/20 V.1 rears.

BTW, the Paradigm Reference series are available as V.2 models. Paradigm should soon release the V.3 models(probably late this year or sometime next year???)....they tend to release new versions every 3 or so years.

P.S. Since speakers are quite subjective, I recommend that one always trust THEIR ears. Paradigm speakers can be a bit bright/forward sounding for some people. As a result, system component matching is important too. E.g. Yamaha/Paradigm combo is not recommended IMO.

Dave

mikealex

02-02-2002, 7:37 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

What are a good HT speakers/with Subwoofer(s) and that are priced around $2000-$4000? thanks

<hr></blockquote>

I'm sure you'll get lots of recommendations for speakers, but the honest truth is, only you can decide. Speakers are a VERY personal thing. Speakers that sound great to me, may sound terrible to you. It all depnds on your sonic preferences.

When I bought my speakers, about 4.5 yrs ago, I had it narrowed down to two - some Boston Acoustics, and Tannoys (which I have always liked). In the end, I selected the Tannoys. Funny thing is, a friend of mine who is equally into HT as I am, swears by his BA's. Neither of us are wrong, we just have different sonic preferences.

I was fortunate when I bought my speakers, because the two stores I was dealing with both let me take home a pair of speakers to try them out, so I was able to compare them side by side, with my own eqiupment, and in my own HT. This is really the only way to choose speakers, but is rarely possible.

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 10:16 PM

mikealex,

Well I know it's a matter of what I think is good. I'm still upset about the Nuance scam. But I can't do anything. They'll have to do for awhile. But next time, I'm going in with the facts and knowledge when I go to by a different brand name. How long do Nuance speakers last? Anyway I'm not going to be made a fool of next time. thanks for the info. Can someone give me the diffinitions of everything involved with speakers,center speakers, subwoofers, surrounds, mid range, bass drivers, tweeter, etc... thanks Well at least I got a good tv, a decent dvd player, and I good receiver.

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 10:21 PM

mikealex,

what store(s) are Paradigms available? Also what store(s) are more trustworthy than international stereo? thanks

mikealex

02-02-2002, 10:41 PM

I'm not saying you shouldn't look for suggestions, and pick a good quality speaker. All I'm saying is that you have to listen to the speakers for yourself, and decide which ones you like. All of the speakers that have been mentioned here are great quality speakers. Unfortunately, the Nuance's aren't.

Since I have no idea where you live, I can't really suggest where you should go. If you are interested in Paradigm, then start at the source - www.paradigm.ca. (http://www.paradigm.ca.) There is a dealers link there, that will take your area code, and tell you where the closest dealers are.

PlusONE

02-02-2002, 10:51 PM

mikealex,

opps! I forgot to mention where I lived I live near Edmonton,AB. Thanks, I will check out the canadian web site for paradigm. I'm interested in the paradigm speakers and I will check them out. But as for buying any speakers right now, probably not. the Nuance speakers hurt my pocket book.

DavidY

02-02-2002, 11:57 PM

FYI, here are some Canadian MSRPs on Paradigm Reference V.2 speakers (all prices are for laminate finish, veneer finish is extra where applicable):

Studio/100 CDN$2250/pair

Studio/80 $1800/pair

Studio/60 $1400/pair

Studio/40 $1100/pair

Studio/20 $800/pair

Studio/CC $550 each

Studio/ADP $1050/pair

Servo 15 subwoofer $1790 including external crossover

Here in Canada, typical dealer discounts range from 15-20-25+% off MSRP.

PSB Stratus series should also be considered. They are more laid back than the Paradigm Reference series IMO. Also, Energy Veritas should not discounted....MSRP prices vary from $1500/pair to several thousand dollars.

Dave

Grunge

02-03-2002, 12:34 AM

Plus_One. If you are looking to spend that kind of money for speakers there are a lot of options available. I recommend sticking to the better known 'boutique' stores that have been around for at least 10 years and who for the most part are the ones who will be carrying the mid to higher end speakers in this range. You may not get the same deal at a boutique however these guys usually care more about hooking up a customer with the right gear than they do making a quick sale. Also something like A&B Sound in Edmonton is reputable and carry many of the products (PSB, Energy, JBL) recommended here. They also have a high end section in downtown Calgary. (Call them in Edmonton to see which location carries their high end equipment.) Edmonton. There have been lots of good recommendations already on this site so I won't bother with any more. I will reiterate some very important considerations for you when shopping:

1. Take your own CD's with music that you are VERY familiar with.

2. Ask the sales rep to run the speakers through a similar system to what you are using. (Don't audition the speakers with a $10,000 Krell, or even a $5,000 Denon, if you are going to be using a $600 Pioneer receiver, etc.) If the store is reputable they will be more than accomodating and likely make some other useful suggestions along the way.

3. Compare speakers side by side whenever possible. Where not possible, make sure you use the same CD and as near apart as possible (while it is fresh in your memory)

4. Very important. Be open minded and ignore your friends (or salesman)biases. Let your ears make the decision for you and you will not regret your decision. Like I said in an earlier post, I had a strong bias towards Paradigms because of their reputation (which is deserved) but in the end I went with the JBL Studios and have never regretted it.

5. Finally. When you do decide, make sure that the dealer will let you try them out in your home for a week to see if they sound good in your particular environment with your equipment. I originally had a pair of Energy C-2 that were very nice in the soundroom but way too bright in my home (this ofcourse can be overcome if you really like the speakers enough). A&B Sound let me take home the Energy, Psb and JBL one at a time to try at home. They also let me demo them alone for an hour side by side in their sound room. Any reputable retailer will let you do this.

OK, I've said enough. Good luck.

PlusONE

02-03-2002, 1:28 AM

Thanks for all your advice guys. I looked at the paradigm canadian web site. So I could get some figures. And I looked at the diffinitions and the advice that they had on the web site. It was very helpful. Now I'll just wait until I have some more saved up cash to shop around for good speakers. I'm never going back to International stereo. Thanks again.

Skyway

02-03-2002, 2:23 AM

DavidY,

I have a Studio 15a sub...What is the external crossover and how important is it??

It sounds like you know the Paradigm equipment very well!!

**DONOTDELETE**

02-03-2002, 1:19 PM

I will vouch for A&B Sound credibility in Edmonton as well (If it's same ownership as 10 years ago)

DavidY

02-03-2002, 8:50 PM

Sorry, I am not that familar with the external crossover that usually comes with the Servo 15 sub. There are at least two different models, X-20 or X-30, for the crossover, depending on the type of connection needed. Most other subs have an internal crossover. Depending on the HT receiver/speakers, you may or may not need the external crossover with the Servo 15. By excluding it, one can save some $$$. The X-20 and X-30 list for CDN$190 each. I think that the X-20 has RCA jacks. Not sure about the X-30.

Dave

PlusONE

02-10-2002, 2:01 AM

I was wondering, are the Energy Veritas any good? If so, which ones? (fronts,center,rears,subwoofer) Are the Energy Audissey's any good as well? thanks

DavidY

02-10-2002, 2:33 AM

The Energy Veritas series isn't talked about too much. Several years ago, Energy released two high end models, 2.8 (MSRP CDN$7000/pair) and 1.8 (MSRP CDN$5000/pair). I know that the reviewers at <a target="_blank" href=http://www.audioideas.on.ca>http://www.audioideas.on.ca</a> have the 1.8's in their reference system. More recently, Energy released other Veritas models 2.4, 2.3, 2.2, 2.1 and 2.0C (centre) and 2.0R (surround). I understand that these new models have been revised from the earlier 1.8 and 2.8 models. How much of a difference?...I am not sure.

It appears that the Canadian dealers like A&B Sound have had the models 1.8 and 2.8 clearance priced at CDN$3000/pair and CDN$5000/pair, respectively (late fall and Xmas).

While I have not had a chance to listen to the Veritas series, I have been impressed with the discontinued Connoisseur and Pro series....enough that I would put the Veritas on my short list for high end stereo speakers.

The new Veritas are fairly pricey, starting at CDN$1500/pair for the 2.1 up to CDN$5000/pair for the 2.4 (all are Canadian list prices).

Here's an Audio Ideas Guide review on the Energy Veritas 2.2:

http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/energyv2-2.html

Dave

PlusONE

02-10-2002, 2:47 AM

thanks DavidY, these Veritas are pretty pricey. Anyway when I do buy speakers I will be prepared this time. I'm probably going to compare the JBL, Energy, Paradigm, JSB series of speakers. And maybe other as well.

DavidY

02-10-2002, 10:13 PM

PSB, B&W and Axiom should be considered too. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Dave

PlusONE

02-10-2002, 10:42 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot about those ones. LOL /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
But I will check out them all and do a very very through comparison. Should I bring some DVD's in as well?

PlusONE

02-11-2002, 3:31 AM

2 more questions. What is a good A/V receiver for the HT speakers such as: PSB speakers, Energy, Paradigm, etc...? Also I have a Pioneer VSX-710S A/V receiver, how many speakers can it support including the subwoofer? It says on the front 100W X 5ch. I'm guessing it only supports 5 speakers. thanks

Geoff

02-11-2002, 5:13 AM

Is it AC-3 Dolby Digital?
If so the answer is yes and you will also need a subwoofer to complete the system.The sub will ,in all likelyhood support itself.

DavidY

02-11-2002, 6:15 AM

I am not familar with your Pioneer receiver....if it's a new model, it should be able to support both DD and DTS.

Furthermore, 5x100 indicates the number of watts (rated by the manufacturer as 100 watts...usually at 8 ohms; typically it's less than that if tested by third parties) per channel. 5 indicates the number of channels that the receiver is capable of powering. Therefore, this receiver is able to power up to five speakers....like most A/V receivers. There should also be a sub out (for a powered subwoofer....most commercial subs are self powered)....this is also typical of most A/V receivers.

Are you unhappy with your Pioneer receiver? IMO, I would not likely upgrade the receiver at this time....but that's me. YMMV.

Dave

PlusONE

02-11-2002, 9:42 PM

It supports DTS/Dolby Digital. So I can have 5 speakers plus a powered subwoofer on this receiver? I'm happy with my Pioneer receiver, I just wanted to know if it would support the JBL, JSB, Paradigm speakers, etc...? And if I do need a receiver that supports more speakers, I could probably get the Pioneer VSX-D810S or VSX-D850 they support 6 speakers I think. Any recommendations on a good a/v receiver? Or is my receiver good enough? thanks DavidY and everyone else for helping.

PlusONE

02-11-2002, 10:15 PM

So it supports 5 speakers at 100W per speaker, correct? If it is correct then I would need a receiver that supports more watts per channel? thanks

DavidY

02-12-2002, 12:30 AM

Your Pioneer receiver should be fine for most speakers. Is your receiver capable of powering speakers which are rated at 4 or 6 ohms? Your instruction manual should note this. The receiver's specifications may also note the number of watts at 4 or 6 ohms. If wattage is given at either 4 or 6 ohms, then there is a good likelihood that the receiver is able to handle 4 or 6 ohm speakers.

A lot of speakers have a nominal rating of 8 ohms. The minimum rating is typically lower, say 4 or 6 ohms. For example, PSB Stratus series typically have a nominal and minimum speaker impedence of 4 ohms. These types of speakers require receivers with high current capability (able to handle 4 ohm speakers). Not all receivers are able to handle speaker loads like PSB Stratus. Onkyo receivers typically are rated to handle speakers as low as 6 ohms only (i.e., 4 ohm speakers are not recommended by Onkyo).

At the end of your speaker auditions, you might want to check on their impendance rating....especially the minimum figure.

Does your Pioneer receiver have pre-outs for all two, three, or all five channels? Receivers with pre-outs allows one to add a more powerful amp to your system in the future.

Dave

PlusONE

02-12-2002, 1:34 AM

I don't know if it supports 4 or 6 ohms. I will have to look at the instruction manual. As for pre-outs, I'm not sure what they are? Can you explain to me what they are? I know I can connect all 5 speakers to the receiver. I will really have to check the manual. thanks for the info. so far.

PlusONE

02-12-2002, 2:35 AM

It supports 8 to 16 Ohms for nominal impedance. The min. is 8 ohms. As for pre-outs I think it only has about 2 or 3, but I'm not sure. It says in the back of the receiver, center pre-out and subw. preout. Under the subw. preout it says:

R-----L
surround
subw.--- center
DVD 5.1ch input

Is that also preouts? I thinking they're not. But I know for sure that the Pioneer VSX-D810S and VSX-D850S have preouts for 2 x Left & Right speakers, 1 surround back, 1 preout for the center and 1 for the subwoofer. My guess is I'll have to buy either the VSX-D810 or VSX-D850S.

DavidY

02-12-2002, 4:03 AM

If a receiver has pre-outs for all five channels, then a power amp, typically a two-, three-, or five-channel power amp(s) could be added to the receiver for improved sound....especially for 2 or 5 channel music. Some receivers have no pre-outs, others have either two or three.

Generally, most HT enthusiasts remain happy with their A/V receivers "as is," without adding any power amp. People who add a power amp are typically looking for improved sound quality, especially for 2 channel music listening.

Personally, I don't think that you really need the pre-outs right this minute. Therefore, upgrading your A/V receiver should be a lower priority need. Your $$$ are probably better off somewhere else in your system.

Just my 2 cents Canadian.

Dave

PlusONE

02-12-2002, 7:56 PM

So what exactly is a power amp? How does it improve sound quality? So I guess my receiver is good enough to support 8 ohms speakers such as JBL Stratus or Paradigm Refference series? I know for sure right now thay my receiver only has one preout for the subwoofer and one preout for the center channel. That's it. Does it matter how many watts a 8 ohm speakers is? What I mean is if I buy a 200 watt 8 ohm speaker will my receiver support it? Or if most of the speakers are 200 watts 8 ohm speakers will my receiver support it? I'm sorry for all these questions. I'm almost completely dumb when it comes to speakers, receivers, and speaker terminology. I just don't want to be swindled again by a pushy salesperson. I guess it wouldn't hurt if I went with the VSX-D810S, that way I'll have all the preouts in case I want to go that way. And I wouldn't have to upgrade. But I think I might just stay with the VSX-D710S. I think it's a good receiver. thanks for the info.

DavidY

02-13-2002, 12:01 AM

Generally speaking (no pun intended),

A/V receiver = a A/V pre-amp + a power amp + a FM/AM tuner

For most A/V receivers, the weak link is most likely the power section. With pre-outs on the left and right mains, one can get better 2 channel sound quality with a separate power amp. Some speakers, like Paradigm Reference Studio/100 or PSB Stratus Goldi, you need a big power amp (say 200+ watts/channel) to sound their best. With these types of speakers, nearly all A/V receivers aren't able to properly drive them....thus the need for a separate power amp (for critical 2 channel music listening).

IMO, a speaker's wattage rating is not that important. A speaker that is rated for 75 watts should be able to handle a receiver with 100+ watts per channel. Most speakers are fine as long as the power from the receiver is clean or free from noise. If the power is not clean, clipping of a speaker is possible and would likely be detirmental to the speaker. In other words, you can toast your speaker if you turn up the receiver's volume too high (as volumes increase, the power usually becomes noiser...typical of cheap receivers).

If you do decide to upgrade your receiver, you should consider the Pioneer Elite line of receivers. It's better built than the mass market Pioneer line.

Dave

PlusONE

02-13-2002, 1:22 AM

thanks DavidY. So I guess I will just upgrade anyway. I was looking at the price for those Pioneer elite's, pretty pricey. Well I might not upgrade the A/V receiver as long as my receiver can do the job with speakers such as:
Paradigm Reference Studio/60s or /80s. Or some other speakers. thanks for all your help.

PlusONE

02-13-2002, 10:15 PM

Well I'm going to buy the Pioneer Elite 36TX receiver when I get the chance to do so. About a power amp I probably won't get one.

PlusONE

02-15-2002, 1:20 AM

Are Klipsch speakers any good? thanks

**DONOTDELETE**

02-15-2002, 3:21 PM

Klipsch (sp?) speakers are the type that people either love or hate, with no in-between. Their unique design (solid horn tweeters instead of cones, I believe) result in a sound very different from the bulk of speakers out there.

Not my cup of tea, but only your ears can decide...

jconnor

02-15-2002, 6:28 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Are Klipsch speakers any good? thanks

<hr></blockquote>
Klipsch is one of these names that has been around forever, that does not make them good or bad as ownership can change. The one advantage to the 'horn' design is that they can be very efficient, which can be helpful if you have a lower powered amp.
To echo others, you really need to go and listen to speakers for yourself. There are lots of articles on the internet on how to audition speakers as there are tricks that sales folks can play on you to make a poor speaker "sound better" than a good one as they either want to get rid of them or make more profit on them. Speakers are really tough to buy compared to other items, but a bit of time invested and finding a good retailer (they do exist) is well worth the effort.
A great way to get a debate going is to ask "what about Bose speakers"? BTW Bose make a reasonable $400 HT speaker set, unfortunately they tend to sell for $1000. It's all about value for your hard earned bucks.

PlusONE

02-15-2002, 7:54 PM

I was just curious about the Klipsch speakers. I read some reviews of them. But now they don't interest me no more. I have another question. I have read reviews for the Pioneer Elite 36TX and 37TX receivers. The people reviewing the 36TX receiver said it was good. But got to hot when operating, difficult to opperate the remote when changing volume. I think 1 person said that it lacked some sound quality. Is the 36TX & 37TX good? Or should I check out some other receiver? Also what retailer sells the Pioneer Elite line of receivers? (live near Edmonton,AB) thanks

jconnor

02-15-2002, 8:03 PM

I bought an Onkyo HT receiver about a year or so ago and am very happy with it. Good connectivity (2-optical, 2-coax assignable digital inputs, s-video switching) good learning remote (controls all features on the PVR!) and good sound quality on HT & music sources. You might want to check out Denon as well. I'd stay away from Harman/Kardon, they used to be a great brand, but seem to have slipped in quality according to reports on audioreview.com. Besides I'm immediately skeptical of any audio products sold at FutureShop. I hope this doesn't come across as being snobby as the type of gear I'm talking about is above "general consumer" grade but it not the best you can get, just, IMHO, good value. This, like speakers or cars, can be a very subjective debate. Again, find yourselve a good A/V store, talk to them, and buy from them. You'll pay more than the "great deal" that your brother-in-law got a future shop, but you'll have good equipment that you won't regret buying.

Grunge

02-15-2002, 8:41 PM

jconner, good advice !

jconnor

02-15-2002, 8:49 PM

Thanks. You don't by any chance own an AV shop do you?

PlusONE

02-16-2002, 1:03 AM

thanks jconner. I guess I'll have to check out different A/V receivers until I find the right one. Know any good A/V shop in Alberta? thanks

jconnor

02-16-2002, 4:25 AM

I've only been to Alberta twice, and never for HT shopping! What about A&B Sound? Never been there but could be worth checking out.

PlusONE

02-16-2002, 3:10 PM

thanks. I will look around at several stores.

Ranger_Gord

02-16-2002, 5:27 PM

Recommended. Don't impulse buy. If you see something there that really fits the bill; my advice is to save up and buy it later.

There are people on this board who have pieces of audio equipment that are 20 to 30 years old - all running flawlessly - and giving up nothing in sound quality compared to what's available now.

jconnor

02-16-2002, 6:15 PM

You got that right. The NAD stereo receiver I bought in the late 80's was much better on music than my current DD/DTS Onkyo HT receiver.

You don't get all those licensed decoders, DSPs, video switchers, inputs, outputs, and extra amplifiers for nothing. You can get all that for $400, but don't expect it to perform anywhere near a decent, appropriately priced stereo receiver for music reproduction.

I'm actually amazed at some of the products on the market. I look at them and ask myself, "how can they make all this to sell for this price?" The answer of course is mediocre components. You really do (in most cases) get what you pay for.

But a little research goes a long way. Plus (to me anyway) it's a lot of fun (and some frustration).