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electricguy
12-17-2003, 10:17 PM
I have just acquired another computer and it has win 2003 xp pro installed. I would like to try Linux can i do a complete reformat with the Linux and how does office 2000 work and also is there a pop for email. The new to me machine is a p2 350 mhz 256 ram and has a burner.It will be better than my P 166 anyhow.

BCTripster
12-17-2003, 10:39 PM
The Linux install will setup your partitions and format for you.

You will use OpenOffice since Office 2000 only runs on Windows.

There are several mail clients available, Mozilla has a nice one with good spam filtering, there are also a few other stand alones.

I_Want_My_HDTV
12-17-2003, 11:58 PM
I suggest that you either add a second disk for linux or use a partition resizing utility such as Partition Magic (http://www.partitionmagic.com/) to create a second partition on your hard disk. Linux will install a new boot sector that will let you select Windows XP or Linux and automatically boot to either operating system after a short time.

jconnor
12-18-2003, 04:18 PM
If you just want to "try" Linux, you could download a bootable cd from knoppix (http://www.knoppix.org/) or the Suse Live-Eval (http://www.suse.com/us/private/download/suse_linux/).
Either will allow you to run Linux without installing a thing on your hard drive.
It's a good test to see if either can detect all of your hardware.
The advantage of Suse it that if you like it and it works for you, you will already know that your machine is supported.

MeSat
12-18-2003, 06:06 PM
I understand the Office 2002 will run with Crossover Office (http://www.codeweavers.com/site/products/).

I have also read that there is some success with Wine (http://www.winehq.com/).

I use Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org) myself and I havn't had any major problem working with the M$ people around here. This is free and can be used on as many computers as you would like. No fees or chances that M$ will make changes.

Look for linux live CD's or ISO's that you can try. There is also supposed to be a version of Linux for Windows that I have never seen or really read about.

dishguy
12-18-2003, 09:43 PM
This is why I will not be going linux anytime soon.
I went to the suse link and found a refference to a mirror site.
No instructions on how to build the bootable CD or simply definable processors that are supported.

It gives a lot of options but no direction as to what option to use for what configuration I have.

I ussually use the custom install feature when I install software on my computer. I am not a total computer moron but It is going to have to be made a heluva lot easier for me to try it.

I don't want to understand how it works, I just want to use my computer.

I will try new things but if they aren't made simply enough for me to understand then I'll wait for someone with knowledge of how to make it that way takes the initiative to do so.

mikealex
12-18-2003, 10:39 PM
I'm not going to make the ridiculous claim that Linux is for everybody. It is aimed at the more technical people, and to be quite frank about it, if you can't figure out what you need from the Suse page, then Linux probably isn't for you.

It's not just Linux that is like that. No Unix based OS is really meant for the masses. Unix based systems are much more flexible, powerful, and generally perform better. The price for that is, they are more complicated, and require more technical skills to use.

But, as Trip pointed out in the other thread (http://www.canadian-tv.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=computer&Number=137454&pag e=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=1), if you have a machine which you primarily use for surfing, or email, or office type applications, then Linux is a cheaper (free) solution for even the non-technically inclined provide they are willing to take the time to figure out the install (which isn't nearly as tough as you are making it out to be).

BTW, don't take this as a knock against "non-techies". That isn't at all how I intend it. I'm a very technical person, but there are a lot of non-technical type of things which others are very good at, that I could only dream of doing.

BCTripster
12-18-2003, 11:19 PM
One does not have to be a supertechie to use Linux either, my wife used it for a couple years and as I've said enjoyed the experience.

As for install, SUSE makes it difficult on purpose because they do not include their proprietary installer with the downloadable version, you can get their ISO for a LiveCD demo of it though. They want you to buy their distro really.

Try Red Hat or Mandrake for easier installs, although Red Hat has also moved away from the free version as well.

One thing to remember though, even if you have to buy you only have to buy it once and you can use it on all your computers.

I_Want_My_HDTV
12-19-2003, 12:06 AM
Making CDs from an ISO image is not unique to Linux. It can be done with Easy CD Creator or Nero.

Moving to Linux is a new experience. Think back to the first time you installed or used MS Windows. The experience will be the same. It will be a bit easier if you buy a retail version of Linux that emulates MS Windows and have a computer that is built to be Linux compatible. After all, virtually all PCs are built to be MS Windows compatible.

MeSat
12-19-2003, 02:33 PM
Another issue is that M$ is requiring more and more powerful machines to do the same thing. If you have an older machine, try to install XP on it. It could be worse than any Linux install. XP has support issues for older hardware.

You can install Linux on a 386 if your so inclined. I presently use RedHat 7.3 on a Pentium 90 with next to no problems. I admit that my video card isn't fully supported in the latest version but it works great for Interent and word processing.

If you are a small business and need a computer for wordprocessing, then Linux may be a good choice as Open Office can be run on a P90 and has almost all the bells and whistles of Office 200x. And there is no need to pay hundreds of dollars for a program that will do what most office require.

Making an ISO CD has always been easy. I have never done anything special to make the CD. I just followed the instructions on the WWW site.

I have heard that Suse is one of the harder installs. I have always found RH to be easy but I am not sure about using RH on my new machine as they are focussing on the commercial market. Their Fedora project is designed for the home user but I have been looking at Gentoo for my new computer.

Oh yea, if you have a 64 bit processor then your only real choice for a working OS is Linux as Microsoft hasn't gotten one ready yet. Oh for an extra $1000.

jconnor
12-19-2003, 02:55 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
have heard that Suse is one of the harder installs

[/ QUOTE ]

Suse doesn't provide ISO images from there site, but does allow a network installation. That's ok if you a) have broadband and b) are only doing one install.

That's having been said, there are guys in Canada who will sell you (legally) SuSe CDs so that you don't have to worry about the downloads or the ISOs.

I'm running SuSE 8.2 on an older PIII Compaq and it works great. I had to configure the sound card manually, but other than that the install was a snap.

If you are planning to install Linux on a machine that is currently running Windows, it's a good idea to run the Belarc advisor before you get rid of windows. You should also check out the windows device manager and get the settings for devices that use interrups, io channels, etc.

You may not need it, but it's great if you do.

mikealex
12-19-2003, 04:11 PM
As long as we are on the topic of Linux, Linus Torvalds released v2.6.0 of the kernel last night.

Announcement: http://lwn.net/Articles/63621/
User friendly list of changes: http://kniggit.net/wwol26.html

jconnor
12-19-2003, 11:40 PM
The new kernel looks interesting. I wonder how long it will take to be included with the major distros. I suppose I could download it and compile it myself. But it has been many many years since I ran a c compiler (assuming that's what it's written in.)

jconnor
12-19-2003, 11:53 PM
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that you can get inexpensive SuSE CDs from Canadian eBay sellers. Just do a search for Suse 9.0 on ebay.ca and you should see a few.
You won't get manuals and they will be CDRs but you'll have a copy of SuSe linux to try out for less than $10 Canadian.

MeSat
12-22-2003, 05:38 PM
I have been reading Spring time.

I am going to install Gentoo on my new computer this week. I think they have a 2.6 kernel version.

mikealex
12-22-2003, 08:50 PM
If they do, it would be a beta. No release is going to get the offical 2.6 release in in just 4 days.

jconnor
12-22-2003, 09:08 PM
Agreed. Suse 9.0 was shipping with a 2.6 beta which could be installed if someone wanted to experiment. But the 2.4.x was the default selection for installation.

fmr2002
12-22-2003, 09:24 PM
gentoo is a source based installation. It could have a working package in 4 days. Since I haven't read all the manual about e-builds, I can't say for sure, but you can basically use directly linux source code from their system, with a small install script that will compile it for you. Gentoo is my new distro. Very powerful, can't go back to Mdk, RH (Fedora) or Suse anymore. From now on, I'm in control of my machine.

mikealex
12-22-2003, 10:28 PM
I understand what gentoo is, and they can probably get it in there quicker, but 4 days is still a little optimistic. I checked their website, and the only release I could find with kernel 2.6 was the dev release, which usually means it contains beta (or earlier) code.

MeSat
12-24-2003, 03:14 PM
Linux is more than just an operating system.

Here is a link (http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/21/2246258&amp;mode=thread&amp;tid=106&amp;tid=126&amp;tid=159&amp;tid=18 5&amp;tid=186) to details on an interesting book about different toys (we all know what our toys are like) that you can make with Linux.

Just some of the items are: Home music player, DVR, Arcade game and video streaming server.

mikealex
12-24-2003, 03:19 PM
Well, actually, Linux is just an operating system. It just happens that you can build all those cool toys with it.

I_Want_My_HDTV
12-24-2003, 05:29 PM
I could not agree more. Linux, and Unix, are very powerful and complete software and hardware development environments. That is one thing people in suits could never get their heads around. They put technical people on Windows with Office and a crappy compiler or whatever and expect them to be able to be productive. Well, it just does not work that way. A good developer needs a lot more than that to be productive. I do not expect anyone who has not spent several years doing software development in a Unix or Linux environment to understand but I expect them to respect the viewpoint of a professional person. The sad thing is that most of the snotty nosed Windose kids, business school brats and old school cobol pinheads just do not. 'Nuff said.

MeSat
12-24-2003, 05:42 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
They put technical people on Windows with Office and a crappy compiler or whatever and expect them to be able to be productive.

[/ QUOTE ]
It reminds me of a problem last week where one of the programmers was trying to get something done before starting on holidays. It turned out to be a sub feature (?) buried deep in one of the Windows API's. He was working with .net and it took him days to find. Took two days to work around it.

It is interesting that even with SCO trying to blackmail the business comunity to pay them a fee for using Linux, usage of Linux is increasing almost daily. Even M$ is surveying Linux users to find out why they don't use Windows. I don't have the links. All I can say is "Blue Screen of Death", yes even in XP.

I_Want_My_HDTV
12-24-2003, 10:16 PM
One of my Dad's XP systems died on him. It got the BSOD on boot and now has a boot disk failure. It was built in a weird way by computer shop and had a bunch of bad software installed. I will need to install XP again for him.